This blog is being borrowed from our friends at CrossFit Taranis. They originally posted it on October 10 and as a coaching team we thought it was really well written and confronted an issue that sometimes arises in our box. Give it a read and let us know what you think.
Cam and Deanna
Hey Coach!
By Dan Atkinson, CF Taranis coach and co-owner
As I write this blog I’ve got a few different things running through my mind. On one hand I feel that this message needs to get out. In fact, I think it’s something that probably should have been put out in this forum a long time ago. On the other hand I don’t want anyone to take this the wrong way and feel like their opinion on the floor is not welcome or appreciated. I also don’t want to take away from the friendly and helpful nature of many of our athletes. But ultimately I feel this needs to be said, so here it is.
What I’m referring to is athletes coaching athletes. We are fortunate in our box to have many different people from many different backgrounds all bringing their own strengths to our collective community. For this I am grateful and consider us lucky at CFT to have such a broad range of experience from which to draw upon. This stands only to make us better as a whole. But the uncontrolled distribution of information when it comes to coaching specifics can stand to undermine what the coaching staff at CFT may be trying to accomplish with any given athlete.
Now I’m not saying that if someone solicits you for an opinion that you shouldn’t give it, nor am I saying you can’t offer an opinion in certain circumstances. But coaching another athlete or offering cues on how you think they could improve may actually do more to set the athlete back than move them forward based on the approach that the coach is taking with that athlete.
So let’s look at a “for instance”. As a coach I observe an athlete struggling with a particular movement. Perhaps I can instantly pick up 4 areas that the athlete could improve in order to get proficient at this movement. Of those 4 deficiencies I may deem 1 as being the priority or the most important of the flaws that needs improving. I may not even tell the athlete about the other three because right now they are irrelevant in my eyes and may only stand to confuse them. After all, I can polish those up later. Right now let’s focus on fixing number 1, then move on to number 2, 3, 4. So I offer some guidance on how I feel the athlete could improve and what they should be working on. I walk away to work with another client and along someone comes who now offers their 2 cents. Maybe it’s valid, in fact it probably is valid to some degree, but more often than not it is one of the other 3 things that aren’t nearly as important as the 1 that I am trying to address. This can confuse the athlete, prove frustrating, and ultimately undermines what the coach is trying to accomplish. This can’t happen, and in my opinion is still happening way too much. Now I don’t think anyone is doing this intentionally, and everyone has their best intentions at heart. I know this. But coaching is the job of the coach, not the athlete.
The coach on duty is the coach on duty. They are there to not only run the class and maintain order, but they are there to offer cues, progressions, modifications etc. If you see something another athlete is doing that you feel needs to be addressed you should point it out to the coach first, not the athlete. The coach may have already addressed that or may have them placing their focus somewhere else right now. Not consulting with the coach first may do more to slow the athletes progress than improve it. If, after speaking with the coach, the coach agrees with what you are saying they may change their approach accordingly. After all, we are all here for improvement and to help each other achieve our fullest potential. Pride should not play into this equation. This is best achieved by working with a coach, not against them.
Now don’t get me wrong, if someone asks your opinion that’s fine…you can give it, I have no problem with that. But again I would like to stress that you should be utilizing the coach on the floor as a resource in this process as well. A response such as “this is what I’m seeing but I’m gonna call over the coach to see what they think” is the proper course of action that should be taken in this circumstance.
All in all we have a great box and an awesome atmosphere as we all know, I don’t want to take away from that. And I also know that we all have the best of intentions when trying to help our fellow athlete accomplish their goals. On that note however, you must understand that the most successful way we can do that is to work with the coach who’s running that class. By working with them you may come to see why they are following the path that they are or perhaps show them a different path that potentially makes more sense. Then the coach can make a call on the course of action they feel is appropriate to get the athlete where they need to be. Either way, everyone will win. An athlete that is receiving too much information that pulls them in possibly different directions (even when the same goal is involved) is doomed for frustration and ultimately set back and possibly failure. Not a scenario any of us want to occur.
So in closing, use your coach, respect your coach, and listen to your coach. They have your best interests at heart.
“A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment.”
-John Wooden
Just to echo Dan’s sentiments, we in no way want to discourage the sharing of basic info between members. This can be really helpful, especially for new members in easing their transition into our environment. When it comes to the finer details of coaching though, the coach is there to do just that and is the final word on technique and/or progressions in the class. If as a member you have learned different techniques or think other progressions might be more productive, be sure to discuss that with the coach after class. As professionals, we are all interested in hearing different perspectives on technique and movement development so that we can constantly improve the quality of our coaching delivery.
Turts
Yoga: Remember that Yoga will be tonight! If you are planning on attending Yoga tonight at 7:45pm please sign in “online” or email deanna@crossfitzone.ca before 4:00pm. If no one signs in to class, there will be no Yoga class. Thanks!
Today’s Workout:
Buy-in: Warm up well before class
WOD: Frog Legs
This is a two part workout, both components count towards your score:
- Front Squat 6 x 1, 85%+ of 1RM for all sets, working up to a max single
- 7 minute AMRAP of:
– 10 burpees
– 10 pullups
– 10 box jumps (20/24)
Zone 2 – scale to assisted pullups and scale box height (12/20)
Zone 1 – scale as needed
Add your best weight in the Front Squat to your total reps in the AMRAP for your daily score!
Cash-Out: Stretch hamstrings, hip flexors, quads, calves
A) That’s an awesome picture of H-Bomb droppin the bomb on the Big Easy.
B) This looks like an excellent WOD
C) Just want to reiterate a couple points from the blog post. Discussion is welcome! It is so important that we throw new ideas and opinions back and forth, in order to grow as coaches and athletes. This collaborative process is definitely best undertaken outside of class time, when attention, energy, and time are availabe.
Question everything. Do your own research and studying, to complement what you learn from your coaches. There are many ways to skin a cat. As long as there are valid reasons behind Approach X and Approach Z, then they are both great; however, for Individual Y, X may be more appropriate than Z. This is where the coach comes in, determining the best focus and cues for the Individual.
There’s nothing I love more than discussing lifting technique, training strategies, and methodology. Getting your neighbor involved in this discussion mid-WOD is usually not the best venue.
Love,
Lucas
Well said Lucas…
Gang, no comments at all? No thoughts on the topic? Let us know!
Great blog post!
As a Coach, I love the fact that our Zoners are like absorbent sponges, soaking up the knowledge they gain during class times regarding form and technique. I appreciate that this knowledge creates confidence in their skill, as well as a willingness to pass this information on to others! The camaraderie that comes from learning and sharing together with your peers is part of what makes CrossFit so unique.
I also appreciate the point that was made about trusting in the Coach’s overall plan with each of the Athletes in their class. Sometimes the advice we give or the suggestions we make are based on factors we don’t openly publicize. By building a trusting relationship and a good base of knowledge about each Zoner’s individual needs and goals, we as Coaches are better able to provide useful advice with a personal relevance.
I learn from the clients every class, just as I hope they are able to learn from me. So let’s keep those lines of communication open!
I can’t believe there was not more discussion on this….. What is everyone’s thoughts?
I dont think athletes cueing, correcting, or making suggestions to other athletes should be discouraged. There is far too much going on for one coach to spot. There are lots of Level 1 certified athletes or Subject Matter Experts that are available to give feedback and I would appreciate it if they gave it. Obviously, common sense must prevail to determine how and when one offers advise to not detract from the class and to make sure its welcome. I do think correcting in the WOD is entirely appropriate. Yeah, it may temporarily slow down the athlete and they get a worse time that day but Crossfit is for the long term. The Crossfi Mantra of Mechanics, Consistency, Intensity should appply. Not correcting a rounded back or caving in knees on a squat has serious consequences. Anyone should be able to call gross mechanical errors whenever they occur, or point out the wrong grip is being used on muscle ups or anything else of that nature. Leaving the accountability only to the coach is lazy and ineffective.
Is this really a problem at the Zone? Or are you guys just trying to head things off before it becomes a problem? I totally agree that all points discussed above are valid and, maybe I’m oblivious (which is certainly possible!), but I just haven’t seen it happening. Either that, or where you’re drawing the line between ‘sharing of basic information’ and ‘peer coaching’ is different from what I’m assuming (also very possible).
For example, if I’m sharing a bar with someone and we’re working up to a max lift and one of her knees starts to collapse in at heavy weight – I’ll tell her. Or, if on a snatch she lands with the bar off-center, I’ll tell her that too.
These sorts of scenarios seem to fall into the category of an experienced athlete who is trying to push their limits but whose form is breaking down a bit in an obvious way and probably isn’t aware of it, whereas the scenario presented in the blog seems to be more in line with someone who is fairly new to a movement.
Is this in line with what you’re thinking, or are you really trying to address the types of scenarios I mentioned?
I agree with a few of the points that Paul mentioned. I can recall more than a few occasions when other Zone members have been watching me do a WOD, and yelled some “coaching” comments related to my bad technique, posture, etc. While I don’t always find them helpful, in general I think it is better to know, and then at least I become more aware of my technique.
Anyways, I think our coaches are awesome, and I don’t think this is really an issue at our gym, so that’s my 2 cents.
I understand where this post is coming from, but I also agree with some of Paul’s points. There needs to be a line of coaching and helping, and for the most part I don’t see much of this happening at our gym…. maybe i’m just as oblivious as Wendy (not that she is of course lol)
I love getting tips from people, but for the most part I don’t consider it coaching but just part of the community of Crossfit – helping others to improve.
Meh…. good post but i feel it does not apply to our wonderful box! 🙂
Ignorance is bliss!
Good points all, and I want to assure you that this isn’t a rampant issue that we’re dealing with… but just that there have been a few situations where it has been a concern and we wanted to be proactive about the whole deal!
Agreed that asking a single coach to watch everyone at all times is too much… we’re actively beefing up our apprentice coach attendance so that will definitely help with coverage but even then there will be things that go unnoticed occasionally.
Definitely gross alterations from proper form like Paul mentioned (rounding of back in deadlifts, knees drifting in on squats) are easy to pinpoint and should be mentioned to the involved party. Tips and tricks for simple motions are also often welcomed and beneficial.
The main issue I see is in situations where we are teaching a certain style of movement (such as a high bar squat), a complex movement (such as a clean or snatch variation), or when a member has a different philosophy on technique development to the coach. In the first instance, people may have different perspectives on how to squat and also how to CORRECT a squat. In the second instance, someone actually needs a huge amount of experience working with athletes to actually create a positive change in technique. In the third instance, if the coach is trying to train a certain movement pattern, giving tips or advice towards a different movement pattern can be pretty destructive to the learning process.
I agree that we have some people who have knowledge of training in our gym however I would challenge the idea that CF level 1 in any way certifies someone as an “expert” or that knowledge of training methodologies actually establishes that someone knows how to “coach” (knowing something and coaching something are two entirely different things).
The reality is in this world that information on training is everywhere however the understanding of application of training is overwhelmingly lacking. Knowing the principles of a training system is completely different than understanding how that system applies to each individual. Coaching is using small chunks of info to effect positive change, not using lots of info and haphazardly applying it. The former ability ONLY comes with practice of coaching HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of different types of people.
Open dialogue is great, tips and tricks are fine too and often lead to better performances (the sharing of information between “practitioners” of CF i.e. you guys is a good way to learn better ways to do things). I don’t want to discourage that at all! The line has to be drawn though in situations where people are giving advice contrary to what the coach of the class is giving (this has happened several times in the last few months but is not a widespread problem by any means!). As a coach, this undermines the message that we are trying to send and can seriously disrupt progressions we are trying to achieve.
As a group of athletes I think there is almost unanimous support of our coaches and that is great – we like you so we’re doing the best job possible to help you reach your goals. Thanks for all the feedback, keep it coming or if you have comments or questions you want to bring up with me directly, feel free to zip me an email anytime!
Your budday
Turts
Well said Turtsy! Thanks for clearing that up! A lot of members were a little confused in the classes on what they can say to other clients etc.